Marketing should own a revenue number—that’s a mantra we’ve all heard before. It’s an enticing idea, imagining marketing taking charge beyond just funneling leads to sales. Yet, putting this into practice is often a rarity.
We as marketers come up with crazy excuses like “attribution is hard” or “the goal was to drive awareness”.
This week on Digital Banter, we’re thrilled to have Kyle Lacy join us. With his wealth of experience leading marketing teams in sales-led environments, Kyle has always advocated for marketing teams to own revenue targets. Join us as we dive deep into turning this bold concept into tangible, actionable steps!
Podcast Transcript
What’s up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Digital Banter. Now, bi weekly, because I’m on paternity leave, so my, uh, very, very busy days over here. Um, so today, we have An interesting topic, honestly, one that we’ve talked about before. Uh, we’re going to get a bit into marketing and sales alignment.
Our guest today is Kyle Lacey, CMO of jellyfish. Kyle, welcome to the show. Thank you. I was jamming to that music. Some awesome music coming in. Oh yeah. Pure best stock, stock music [00:01:00] around. We can probably send you the file and you can buy it from the same price. All right, Kyle. So I’m going to. Start. I like to, was it in our little framework here?
We, uh, create conflict first. So I’m going to bring up something that you mentioned, and I know is kind of like a big proponent of how you manage your marketing team. So obviously that we’re talking about sales led organizations today, product led organizations, e com companies. I think that those may follow different models, but one of the.
Biggest trends in marketing right now is marketing, owning a sales number. So my question for you is, uh, how does that actually work? Because I’ll tell you this on our side, I made this joke the other day that, you know, everybody talks about like pipeline. That’s another one. Like everyone talks about measuring pipeline.
We’re an agency. The great thing about being an agency side is that we get work with, you know, a hundred different companies and we get [00:02:00] to see all of, uh, kind of what works, the inner workings and who actually is able to do it. And I’ll tell you what, on the pipeline side, I would say maybe like 5 percent of the companies we work with can actually measure that accurately and actually have a formula and it’s part of their reporting, I would say it’s kind of the same thing on sharing a revenue number.
You know, I think that a lot of people get lost in. Well, how do we justify brand spend that going into this campaign was awareness, blah, blah, blah, blah. So how does that, how have you made that work in the past? Well, I mean, there’s a lot to unpack that would take a ton of time, of course. But I think the first thing to note is sales cycle length.
If you have a high velocity sales motion where you’re dealing with half, if not 70 percent of your deals are closing in quarter, It’s pretty easy to do a direct source attribution model, which is basically what segment or what channel, sorry, what channel drove the first touch of the deal that [00:03:00] closed, right?
Did they fill out a form on the website? Did they get a BDR email? Did they have an AE reach out to them? When you have a direct source attribution model where the majority closes in quarter because you’re high velocity motion, it’s really easy to apply a bookings number to a source, right? So when you have that high velocity motion, you should be looking at inbound saying inbound should produce X amount of pipeline and X amount of bookings, um, or outbound or AE self source, whatever channel you want to put in there.
Thank you. When it’s up market and sales cycles are longer, that’s a much harder thing to measure. And I mean, as companies move up market, like about a lot of us do, the attribution model will change. I’m still not a huge advocate of this idea of influence. Um, but I am an advocate of evolving an attribution model, depending on the sales size and the deal size.
So just repeat back high velocity motions, I think are easier to put [00:04:00] bookings numbers against and marketing can own an inbound revenue number that they’re supposed to hit every quarter. Um, but up markets much harder just because there’s so many more touch points. So many more people in the deal and up market, meaning.
You know, you’re dealing with 20 to 30 people in a sales cycle and there’s procurement and security and blah, blah, blah, blah, even with high velocity though, like how do you look at it through the lens of channel based in, for lack of a better phrase influence here, right? So credit being assigned to the source driving it, but obviously there’s so many other variables at play that are ultimately making an impact on the potential buyer.
Yeah. You could, you could, uh, boil the ocean. And I don’t recommend it. Like I’ve, I’ve gone, I’ve gone to this point where we have like a few dollars applied to this one email that a BDR sent from a 12th K deal. And when I’m back in, back in another company that I worked at, I wouldn’t go that far. I’ve used [00:05:00] visible, which is now an Adobe product forever, but there are tons of other vendors out there now that help with this attribution modeling and source information.
I have never done it without a tool. But there are, I mean, there are tons out there that could help with this. So playing along, just real quick, James, playing along that line then. Right. So outside of the tech aspect of things, like how do you manage up to the educational level and conversations needed at the C suite to explain that to them?
Because I think that’s the biggest struggle that we see on the agency side is the. Is the lack of understanding, but also lack of caring that happens at that executive level. And they really just want to know dollars in dollars out. I’m spending a lot on this, but there’s nothing being shown for it. When reality, we know that’s not true.
Yeah. Well, brand is a very different conversation, which I think we can touch on. I, I think it’s all based off of the model that the C [00:06:00] suite agrees on. You know, when, when I, when I had a high velocity model of less than Lee, We said, hey, 75 percent of our spend 70 to 75 percent of all of our spend is going to go towards generating these bookings numbers.
And we’re going to have an attribution model and measures that the 30 percent that I’m going to spend on a brand, uh, like we did a Lego model, a jellyfish, we did a Lego model that, um, at Leslie, before we got on here, we talked about our store. That stuff is baked into the cost and I’m not going to go to, uh, my team and say, I need you to measure the impact of the jellyfish store.
I’m just not because if you, if you’re planning appropriately, you should have a percentage of your budget. That’s driving the majority of pipeline you need so that you have, um, a war chest for creative endeavors. I think that when you put a bunch of creatives in the room to try to think of something really cool that’s going to like drive.
A high [00:07:00] level experience for the prospect and you put a revenue number against it. It just kind of kills the creativity. Like what’s the ROI of a Lego set? I don’t know. I have no idea. Like we could probably measure it, but that’s not the point of that. Now, if you miss bookings and you miss pipeline and you’re not understanding the nuances of the sales funnel and all that stuff, what can I give a thumbs up?
Um, and you still go do the creative stuff. Then you’ve got an issue. In my opinion, because you, you bookings bookings are what drive the budget and what drives the growth of the company. So what do you have against influence revenue numbers? I know you can, again, it’s, it’s like boiling the ocean. I, you know, I think marketing should influence a hundred percent of pipeline and bookings and it fine.
It’s okay to measure that. And I’ve had this conversation a couple of weeks ago with Becky, our head of revenue marketing, who’s one of the best I’ve ever worked with. And [00:08:00] we’re building a new model to help us understand all the touch points within the sales cycle, because our sales cycles are getting longer and it’s, and it’s more to inform than it is to report on maybe that’s the best way I think it should inform what you do, but it shouldn’t be an executive level metric to the board where it’s like.
We influence X amount of pipeline. Yeah. I think it’s, it’s the part that gets tough is when you’re trying to like prove the value in certain channels. Like on our end, I, I love being able to see revenue, like influence revenue across the customer journey. Cause you can find common touch points, right? Like, you know, that like paid searches normally at the end, our LinkedIn ads are doing well as a first touch and there’s these three things that happen in the middle.
Cause then you can essentially. Optimize your system and find the. You know, the things in there that you spend a lot of money on, I would say you spend a lot of money on G2 and you see the G2 influence, like one deal. Like that’s, that’s where you can start to pull that budget from. But [00:09:00] it almost seems like when you, when the top down is asking like, Hey, like, what do we need to pull?
You kind of like need to be able to tell that story. Like to me, you can’t look at like first touch and you can’t look at last touch because. Right. Again, it does depend on like the sales length, but like there’s stuff that happens in the middle and it’s more about the commonalities than the first thing that happened in the last.
And it’s expectation management too. And this is something I’m learning as I evolve as a leader is that the communication of what’s working and what’s not as nuanced, and you have to set expectations appropriately with your CFO, with your CEO, with whoever’s controlling the spend with the board. So they understand that you are focused on driving pipeline.
That’s going to close, but you’re also focused on creating the best experience possible for the employees for for the customers and for the prospects, like, we might. So that’s why I agree that influence. And having an attribution model that measures all touch points to understand what drove [00:10:00] X, whatever that X is, is important, but not walking into a room saying marketing did a good job because we influenced X amount of pipeline.
Like it just doesn’t say anything. There’s no narrative there. Yeah. It also feels like you’re just justifying your existence there rather than trying to tell them. Yeah. Especially if you, especially if you miss bookings and your reps aren’t hitting quota and you’re coming in here like, Hey, we influenced a hundred million in pipe.
Like who cares? Convert. All right. So let’s, let’s dive into the, uh, we’ll call it like the alignment between marketing and sales, because you said that essentially marketing needs to own a revenue number, I guess. We’ve got a couple of questions here and you can take it wherever you want. Is that the same revenue number as sales?
Is that like a shared number? Is it a. Marketing needs to influence an X percent. Like, how do you set those targets and have them different than what sales has? Cause in, from what I’ve seen, like on the sales side, you have inbound and outbound, like sales has [00:11:00] goals beyond what marketing is delivered to push inbound.
So how do you create alignment there? And then I guess on the other side for sales, like how do you help them prioritize? Cause I think that’s another big part about being aligned. Well, I think own. I think the definition of own is different. Uh, you know, in my, in the current, in a, in a, uh, longer sales cycle, marketing should be the steward of the pipeline number and should be able to understand what’s working and what’s not at top of funnel.
The sales leader will always be the owner of the bookings number. It doesn’t matter how much I wax poetic about bookings on podcasts or the interviews or in the board meeting. Are, you know, the head of sales is always going to be the one that is going to, that’s going to have to answer for quota attainment and rep rep efficiency.
But marketing can at least be a helpful [00:12:00] advocate to help with conversion rates across like product marketing is something that should be Should care deeply about conversion rates across the funnel, and that’s where that’s where a lot of the meshing of sales and marketing happens, whether that’s through enablement or through the conversion rates, and it’s more than just marketing qualified, a bunch of inbound and sales needs to close it.
It’s a. I think it was, uh, UD from Gong that said you should know your sales leaders, coffee order. Like you should be friends with them. You should understand what it takes and you should care. I mean, one thing I talk about regularly is. You should be involved or at least know what the headcount capacity model is for sales.
If you’re a marketing leader and you don’t understand the headcount capacity model, you’re missing it. You’re missing something because you’re not involved in the data that I think is important, especially for a sales led model. So here’s a question. How do you [00:13:00] You approach compensation in that matter.
Uh, marketing. So where’s the disconnect between marketing and sales really come from is the fact that in most organizations, sales is compensated based on their ability to close marketing is salary driven for the most smartphone. I know there’s bonuses and other stuff. Um, you know, if marketing is now responsible for that sales number, like, do they get compensated on it?
Yeah. I mean, I, I, uh, from a leadership team perspective, I’ve always had bonuses for my leaders on bookings. Now, that doesn’t mean that it’s, it’s the same comp model as sales reps, but great sales reps make way more money than marketers. So I would argue that, you know, you’re either growing a company or you’re stalling a company, you know, you, you want to, you want to go work for a stalled company.
It doesn’t matter. Your reps, aren’t going to close the deals anyway. Right. And that’s part of marketing is like half of marketing’s job outside of the brand elements and culture [00:14:00] and building, um, more of the prospect engagement. It’s helping reps close deals because bookings is what drives growth and what drives fundraising and what drives employee.
Uh, retention, it’s bookings growth and bookings can, can be expansion and upsell as well, especially in like a SAS environment. How often do you meet with your sales leadership weekly? I mean, we, we meet our go to market leaders meet weekly. I’m talking to our sales leader. Um, I probably annoy him, but you can ask, do you know his coffee?
Do you know his coffee? He does a special show in the afternoon. I think it’s like a special, it’s like coffee and an espresso shop because we have a intelligentsia coffee in the lobby of our office in Boston. And he goes down there all the time, but sometimes he does ice coffee because he’s from Boston.
That’s what they do. Cause he’s from Boston. Nice. Hey, that’s me. I’m picking up [00:15:00] ice coffee on the way home here. Yeah, we, I mean, this is the more aligned, I mean, I’ve had aligned leaders, but you know, we’re pretty aligned. Uh, executive team for sure. So I’m curious, like, what are those conversations look like then?
Like structurally speaking, like what does, what helps create that alignment? So we’re talking about sharing a revenue. Yeah. But like, what are some of those talking points and things that you guys cover off on then in those meetings, whether that’s the weekly meeting or maybe like a quarterly kind of strategic planning piece of things?
Because I think from our perspective, especially if you’re mine, like, I feel like this is a, a struggle for some of our larger clients. Um, where there’s just disparate systems or disparate decision making and alignment is kind of a pipe dream more than ever becoming a reality. So the way that we look at it, there’s kind of, and this is an evolving process for us as well.
It’s a shared goal and shared objectives and shared, shared kind of initiatives. You can clump that all [00:16:00] together, but we have like tier one metrics. We have tier two metrics, and we have tier three metrics. And the tier one metrics are what’s reported to the board. The tier two is what the exec team needs to know.
And we have those across sales, go to market, customer product, basically those three pillars. And then tier three is mostly our, um, managers. And so this is, this has been evolving for us for a while as we grow, Bye. It’s just talking about these things, whether you’re doing them right, or you’re trying to figure it out, uh, you’re building while the plane’s flying.
Uh, at least it’s, it’s the communication of what you want to accomplish that I think it’s half the job. The rest of it is just the delivering on it. Yeah. I think that, and that’s like the, you know, every it’s another one of those things, like everybody kind of talks about, Oh, well, you need marketing needs to know sales, sales needs to know marketing, like you guys need to meet with each other.
And it’s like, I guess the question always becomes like, okay, well [00:17:00] about what? Right? Because it’s like shared goals, reviewing numbers, all of that stuff is great, but like, uh, like it’s like, you know, some of the things that, uh, we do as an agency, like listening to sales calls, like how does that, how do you set up an organization?
So that type of information is transferred between, I mean, really, it’s kind of like a. Manager level thing. Yeah, I mean, we do, we do weekly gong calls as a marketing team. Our head of enablement, uh, will do a review of a gong call, which will, which we will do in our weekly team meeting and then we have gone trackers.
So, I mean. I mean, I could talk about going forever. I think it’s a brilliant product, but it’s, it’s mostly that, um, we, and we try to distill down that information using a system we use less than Lee, which is where I worked previously before we required, and we kind of try to distill that information down and share it out as much as possible, but I would say that.
[00:18:00] You know, the capacity modeling and you, you have to, you have to also have a shared, um, respect for each other across the leadership team. And I think that’s only, that only happens by being collaborative. And, and if you’re running in the silos. And you don’t understand where to start. I advocate just asking because the sales leader might not know either, but what does the sales leader care about?
There’s two things. Retention of AEs. Account executives, right? And those account executives reaching 90 to a hundred percent of quota attainment. There’s tons of other stuff, but ultimately that’s the goal. And so if you’re helping drive that and you can show that through data, great. Then you’re halfway there.
Is that data then shared? Like, so listening to John calls is a great example here, right? You marketing side is doing it. Sales side is doing [00:19:00] it. Are those insights coming together then? Because I’m, I’m sure they’re different. Yeah. I mean, in a perfect world, they do. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the real world, yeah, that’s hard.
That’s hard though. Yeah. And I, and you know, the, the insights shared are more competitive and as there, if we’re focused on, so here’s a great example, we’re focused on a certain conversion rate. In a stage of our funnel, you best bet that we’re listening to gong calls at that conversion, at that stage to make sure that we understand where, where there’s hiccups and the competitive information and all that stuff.
Do we update everybody all the time? No, but alignment happens when you own a number together. And the number is pipeline coverage by segment and by AE. And it’s also bookings. With quoted saying, yeah, and I wanted to use my question kind of as a, as a jumping off point for a question that [00:20:00] we got from Alexis Garrison in the, in the chat around, you know, fixing a common struggle that we all see around the fact that there are differences.
And communication struggles defining lead quality over quantity marketing might define, I mean, it’s the MQL versus SQL conversation. It’s, you know, high quality, big account pipe dream account versus, you know, a bunch of SMBs that can still buy from us, but aren’t fulfilling sales commission and quotas, things like that.
I mean, how do you, how do you kind of address that over the course of your career? Uh, so I’m gonna, I’m gonna credit a man named Justin Clifford, who’s now a CEO of a startup here in Indy. And he did this at Lessonly. I’m pretty sure he’s going to text me if this is actually wrong, but I’m pretty sure he’s the one that kind of came up with this idea and I’ve, I’ve stolen it from him, but you need to build a go to market handbook.
Or go to market Bible, that’s basically a contract between sales, marketing, sales, engineering, CS [00:21:00] on the definitions of the stages, as well as the definitions of what you’re sending each other territories. And then you have the group sign off on it like a contract. I would even put it into DocuSign and have everybody sign it.
So that when you have certain situations like Alexis called out, which is, Hey, those leads are never quality. Well, number one, you should be all over those reps. If they’re not working, those marketing qualified leads, if they, if they agree that that’s what qualified means, if it firmographic information, engagement, whatever, whatever you’re using, whatever scoring methodology you’re using, but you can go back and use that handbook as arbitration.
Right to say you agreed on this. There’s no reason that you that you needed to wait 12 hours to follow up on that. We all agreed a month ago that we were going to our our follow up was an hour. So I highly recommend doing something. Alexis. If you want to message me, I can send you a [00:22:00] template for something like that.
But it’s it’s just having a shared understanding and it’s communication. When marketing is complaining about MQL is not being worked because you did not get agreements at the beginning of the process. It’s because you threw a bunch of leads at them and I, and you know what? 80 percent of them were probably shit.
Honestly. Yeah. I mean, that’s because it’s volume like that. That’s when you’re running into that. It’s more volume play and Alexis. I’m sorry. I’m assuming that. They were crap and you want the sales reps to use them, but it’s, it’s, you got to get agreement at the beginning. Well, I think that’s the, you’re, you’re touching on something though, too.
When we think about like sales led organizations, it’s balancing and towing the line of quality versus like feeding the beast and those, especially when you have a larger sales team and where everybody’s kind of fighting over some of the same leads or needing a certain amount to work, right. And if you’re not getting enough, you feel it.
But that’s also a process oriented. It’s like, what’s the account [00:23:00] structure that you’re giving these reps? Do you have a scoring methodology to give to new reps so they have more at bats, even though you know that they’re not great leads, but they’re at least decent leads, right? Like it’s all process. And you know, you’re probably within any stage of growth, you’re going to deal with situations where reps aren’t getting what they really want.
That’s also a communication structure is saying, if you aren’t getting what you want, you need to self source. Here’s the agreement that we made earlier. Again, like I said. Five minutes ago, perfect world scenario. It’s never this way. Like you argue all the time about it, but that’s, I mean, at a high level, that’s how I, do you have any like examples or suggestions on how to approach lead scoring?
So I’m asking this for a kind of specific reason, but let me put it this way. Paid media agency, right? Like we take that data from HubSpot sales or whatever, and we import it back into the ad platforms that [00:24:00] takes that lead score. It helps us basically do our job better. A lot of the companies that we work with.
So, so we ask about lead scoring a lot, I guess, is the point there. A lot of the companies that we work with. Quite frankly, have some of the worst lead scoring systems I’ve ever seen in my entire life. You know, just things that are like, Oh, they came, they, they downloaded an ebook and viewed one other page.
That’s an MQL versus like not having an MQL, somebody who was like a hand raiser and submitted a demo. And I think that like, my point here is. A lot of organizations like don’t have a very clean way of doing this. And any advice that you can give them, I think would be super helpful. So there’s perfect world scenario, which I believe jellyfish is that luckily because we have rev ops and we have a smart revenue marketing team is that we use demand base and we use a combination of Salesforce stuff to get the right score.
We use the pie methodology. Now, simplifying that completely. You should only score a demo. [00:25:00] Screw everything else. I mean, we, uh, less than we, we, we didn’t MQL anything unless it was a demo. And then just work off of that. Say maybe, maybe a dinners should be MQL because people are in person let’s test that, but hand raisers should MQL everything else.
And that’s why the influence number kind of drains me, to be honest with you, is that they, you know, just because they download an ebook does not mean they’re interested. What do you know? I could, I could, you know, wax poetic about that for a while, but I know it’s not a perfect system and, uh, it’s hard to do.
Yeah. I mean, how do you use that for justifying the creation of content? Upper funnel then forget brand, like just content creation as you traffic growth, um, the use of the, and we talked about attribution modeling through the sales cycle and how are we driving the [00:26:00] pipeline through those pieces of content or how are, do we have a ebook that helped convert something again, you know, there’s a certain point where you’re going to spend too much time trying to figure this out.
And you’re going to look up and get beat and it’s kind of a balance between, can you figure out big ideas that will drive top line growth while trying to do all the little stuff and not worry too much about whether an ebook drove a bunch of revenue. No, that’s, I mean, I’m just, I was just going to repeat myself using that as a jumping off point then, like, how do you, how do you think about experiments and tests, right?
Is it incremental revenue gains? And if it is like, how do you measure that? Um, so it really depends on the tests, like, like for, for like high level tier one. Uh, initiatives that we’re sharing across multiple teams. There’s a leading indicator. [00:27:00] There’s a date that we think the leading indicator is going to work.
And then, you know, did the MVP succeed or not with that leading indicator? Could be bookings, could be product usage, could be, um, could be pipeline, could be ramp time, could be like, there’s tons of different things, but we pick one leading indicator. So for like AB testing on the site, there’s conversion rate, right?
Of that, of that landing page of the homepage. Um, so it really depends on the test and then you run sprints two weeks, three weeks, four weeks sprints. Depending on what the project is. And then you have, you have a set number of your budget. I kind of talked about this earlier where you just do creative stuff because it’s fun.
Do a Lego model, go do a Lego model, spend some money on Lego, send them out. People surprise and delight people, but you have to set that aside and understand that you’re not going to have that money. For to drive paid ads or to drive, uh, content creation or SEO or anything like that. [00:28:00] So let me hear, I was going to say one more quest.
So you mentioned, just cause you mentioned paid ads. Does that mean that maybe you don’t necessarily believe in spending money in ads for top of funnel activities? Oh, I do. They work. Paid ads work. I’m just thinking for like some of the more like brand initiatives, right? So like, uh, I’m just thinking like, think of like a hero.
It’s hard to give an example that’s not B2B because nobody does it in B2B. But think about like a Super Bowl commercial. Yeah, we spend against brand. Campaigns, but it’s there. It’s mostly just to get it out there. And it’s not like we’re looking at it the same way. We’re looking at the paid ads that are driving demos.
Um, there’s probably cases to be said that we should probably be doing more there. But, um, I mean, we still, it’s not the, you know, it’s not the same spend that we’re doing on, you know, some of the paid stuff, but yeah, I [00:29:00] mean, rising tide lifts all ships. It’s so interesting. Cause like. What’s on the D to Z on the D to C side, like those spends are really flipped, right?
Like there’s usually a lot more brand spend and a lot less call it revenue driving spend because, you know, the commodity is a lot different. Um, and so on the brand side, they do all sorts of like brand lift tests and things like that. Do you like do anything like that? No, I mean, uh, we’ve talked about it for sure.
Like there’s just not. Depending on the growth of the company, it’s just depending on where, where you want to spend time and energy. Like if you’re, if you’re making big bets and you’re being creative and you’re creating great content, it’s going to lift your bookings number. Now I’m sure there, I guarantee you there’s marketers out there that have tied it to the very dollar amount.
And I celebrate them for that. It’s just not how I approach it. To me, it’s like, it’s like influence [00:30:00] revenue and how you describe that. It’s like, it’s cool. It’s great. You can kind of gauge whether or not it’s working, but when you report up, it, it seems to not matter. Yeah. But again, you’ve got to hit pipeline and bookings.
You’ve got to help. And then once you figure that out, then start with the creative stuff. But it’s a. It’s a balance. And, and in hybrid software, all this stuff ebbs and flows so often that you’ve got to throw in creative projects and you’ve got to have fun in the process and you can’t just be, Hey, what was the, what was the ROI on that project?
Cause then you’re not, then you’re not delighting people in my opinion. Great. If only more people thought that way, I guess it’s easier to say than actually do on a daily basis. But yeah, All right, Kyle, as we come towards the end of our episode, we’ve got our magic wand here. We want you to use it and solve the biggest problem you see [00:31:00] right now in B2B marketing.
Oh my gosh, magic wand to solve the biggest problem. I just think most of boring, most B2B brands are just boring. And if I could write, I actually, I don’t know if I would want to fix that so that the people who are good will stand out, but I just, I’m, I’ve said this for a long, I just wish B2B was more like B2C in terms of creative and brand and, and the voice and tone and how you approach events and direct mail.
Okay. I’ll be very specific. I’m going to wave a magic wand and stop with all the Yetis and t shirts and the swag that that’s how James gets all his hats though. He needs the swag. No, but these, these hats, this is a George Bush hat. This is meaningful. This is a meaningful one, but like the boring stuff that just has a logo on the front of it, like stop.
You don’t have a [00:32:00] Yeti mug with the same logo and design, dude. I would, that would look sick. Like a charcoal gray Yeti mug with the neon logo. Just, just like put some creativity in what y’all do. Right. I mean, that’s, that would be my magic wand. And I don’t mean Andy and James. I mean, like the magic wand people.
Sorry. You can say that to us too. We tried, but we know where we’re at. All right, Kyle. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. How can people connect with you and kind of learn more about jellyfish? LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the best place. All right, man. Well, again, thank you again for joining us.
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