frameworks for the perfect landing page

So many times marketers craft the most amazing and creative campaigns, yet fall short in delivering the performance they seek because of one overlooked item: the landing pages. That’s why on this week’s episode of Digital Banter, we’re delving into the intricacies of paid media landing pages. Joining us is special guest Tas Bober, who will walk through essential landing page frameworks and insights that will elevate your ad campaigns to new heights. Tune in live or catch the replay!

Podcast Transcript

You’re listening to the Digital Banter Podcast, the show where we tackle the challenges of B2B marketing head on and aren’t afraid to tell it like it is. Join us weekly as we talk to industry leaders, explore opportunities that impact the bottom line, and rev your company’s marketing engine with actionable insights and tips.

It’s time to burn the old B2B playbook and build something that makes an impact. Here are your hosts, Andy and James.

James: Welcome back everybody to this week’s episode of digital banter. This is my first intro ever because, these guys are making fun of me thinking that I couldn’t do it, but we do have some really exciting stuff today. We actually have our first ever two time guest. On the podcast, there was actually a little [00:01:00] voting we had internally for some of our best episodes ever.

James: And TAS was in the top three. So ironically, over the next couple of episodes here, we have our second two time guests coming up, who is also in the top ever, and I think that’s a lot to be said for 60 podcasts. So today we’re talking about landing pages. But I don’t know, Tass, it’s been a long time since, you were last on the show.

James: I think, a lot has changed since then. I think last time we talked, it was first time you were out on your own. Was it week one? Might’ve been like week one of you being out on your own. Since then, things have gone a long way. I heard you read a book that changed your life. So what are you, what are you up to now?

Tas: A book. My life changed before the book. The book just validated. The change, so book came second. What was the book? What was the book? [00:02:00] It’s, ready to sell or built to sell. It’s built to sell by John something or the other. Anyway, I was yelled at to read it by Anthony Pieri as he yells at me every week to do something or the other, but usually, the outcome’s pretty good.

Tas: So I listened to him. Um. Anyway, when we first started, yeah, you guys were my first podcast ever actually. And now I think I’m like 20 deep. So.

James: Post Dave Gerhart, right? So this, I mean, our listeners are probably going to go through the roof

Tas: right here. Yeah. And I’ll be on his like a third time coming up, in the next month or so.

Andy: Has James had the worst intro so far of you, or like, where does he sit in that, that length of, intros that are good and bad?

Tas: The intros are good. I’ll admit I was only half paying attention, but,

Tas: But, [00:03:00] I don’t know. It’s like if I know the folks, like I know you guys pretty well now. We’ve been on this journey a little bit for like six months. You’ve been there since the start. James and I met in like a networking group and just happened to work together. And so, when you have that, reports a little bit different.

Tas: It feels like I’m just chilling with my friends right now, which is great because that’s when I’m the most rowdy and unhinged. So, that stuff really works well on this very professional platform. But, but yeah, most of the time they ask me for the intro. And so then it’s this awkward, like I wrote it and I’m just telling you to brag about me, but you guys know me well enough.

Tas: So it means more when the intros are. Just kind of organic. And Dave did the same thing, too. He just Kind of looked me up and then made something up and I was like, okay, that sounds good. I’d much rather what you think of me than what I think of me.

Andy: So let’s get a little rowdy and unhinged [00:04:00] about today’s topic, which is paid media landing pages.

Andy: Something that we all vent about on a fairly consistent basis. I don’t know, Taz, why don’t you set the stage here a little bit about why. You have decided to focus on that as kind of one of your core specialties.

Tas: Yeah. And actually the core specialty, in case Anthony’s watching, he’ll yell at me if I say I have more than one, or

James: exercise vertical SAS companies that have three people on their marketing

Tas: team.

Tas: Yeah. With heads of marketing named Susan. No. So the thing is when we first started talking, the first part ever, it was just kind of like general agency relationships. I was the head of. Digital at a couple of companies. And so I came up with that mindset of being a generalist is going to work better because I can do many things [00:05:00] for many people in many companies.

Tas: And I have that to my advantage. And I think when you’re internal, that’s a great advantage to have, because from the corporate perspective, they’re like, this is great. This person can do multiple things. I don’t need to hire, they can squeeze every ounce of investment they get from you. But what I found is when you’re on your own and you have a business.

Tas: It’s better to solve one specific problem, not just from like a memorability, memorability standpoint, I’m just making up words. It’s fine. Not just for being remembered, right? When someone says landing pages, I pro me and probably a few others come up, but then if someone says, okay, paid ads, landing pages for growth stage B2B, it’s so specific that it’s like, well, she’s obviously done the reps and she’s going to be the one that.

Tas: Can advise us best because she’s familiar with the industry, the vernacular, the process, all of those things. And it helps me to stay on track. But, the reason that that move there is more like, [00:06:00] it was a hard shift because I’m like, well, what if people think landing pages are the only things I can do?

Tas: Because I’ve managed budgets. I’ve run the website redesign. I’ve done all of these things. But the reality is that no one thinks that. No one thinks that’s the only thing I can do. And you anchor something Specific like landing pages into a larger value, which for me, it’s landing pages leveraged as a sandbox for the website strategy that’s anchoring to a larger value.

Tas: And I don’t know how many CRO specialists are doing that, and I’m not a CRO specialist. I mean, that’s the other thing, right? Like landing pages, people think immediately on page CRO, which you can go to like any HubSpot article, and it’s going to tell you how to optimize it. You don’t need to pay someone a premium for that.

Tas: But I go the opposite and I put a post out today that was we should be consumption rate optimization specialists for B2B because the buying cycle involves a lot of research and information. So the paid ads thing came actually again from [00:07:00] Anthony, cause I got on a networking call with him and most networking calls are small talk and like, Hey, what’s up.

Tas: And his networking call was he got on, then he goes, what are you doing right now? And I was like, well, like kind of fraction. He’s like, no, that let me go to your website. I’m like, don’t go to my website. Goes to my website. He’s like, what is this? This is a lot. This is what’s happening here. Okay. So then, he’s like, look, I’ve talked to over a hundred startups.

Tas: You need to own a problem. And, the problem that they talk a lot about are these landing pages. And specifically driven by paid ads. And with your background marrying the website and the paid stuff, there’s really an opportunity here. So I’d love to say that I came up with the idea. I didn’t, but it was just such an aha moment after searching that I just needed someone to yell at me and tell me what to do.

Tas: I respond best to yelling. My husband can testify. And, and then I just that night, I was like, well, what do I have to lose? I changed everything and it changed.

James: So, [00:08:00] I mean, it’s definitely a, a huge need. I mean, we come from the, I mean, from full service agency kind of niching down into paid and, you know, have kind of taken that journey.

James: And certainly in my 11 years of paid media at this point, like

James: Landing pages are a problem because, you know, even within an agency, you’re expecting a paid media account manager to do everything from technical optimizations across six different channels. And then you kind of get to the point…

James: I made the joke in my video of like sending traffic to the homepage. We train our team on the basics when it comes to like landing page fundamentals, having a consistent CTA positioning and stuff like that, but it really does take an expert in that area to get it.

James: Right. Especially. When I feel like most of the work that we do comes from like [00:09:00] iterations after iteration of testing. That starts with something that was like, quite frankly, really bad that the client gave us. And then we were like, Oh, well, maybe we should test this because it’s like, there’s no, with anything where you don’t necessarily have the data and the reps to do it.

James: Like you kind of have to start with a hypothesis and test your way into it. So, I mean, it’s definitely, I mean, we know that we’re already working together. There’s definitely a need there.

Tas: And it’s like the underdog of the campaign life cycle, because what ends up happening is you have the campaign idea, the messaging, the ads, the setup, it goes through these, these long approval cycles, and then you’re just so excited to just launch it.

Tas: I mean, I talked to a client, you know, a client now client today, and he was just like, you know, we go through all this stuff. We get it approved. And then it’s like, Oh my gosh, just launch it. I just want it launched. And like, I just want it done [00:10:00] and move on to the next project. And they’re not giving the time of day to the campaigns.

Tas: And I think the problem fundamentally is when marketing becomes an order taker and we’re doing 600 campaigns because we have this event here, this white paper there. We’re not covering the foundations. And so that’s the gap, right? It’s like, what are the core small number that I just need to run in the background that I can go out for a week and I know that my engine’s still running.

Tas: You know, versus these accessory things that are going to get scale. So, so I think that’s the piece where I’m like, yeah, you shouldn’t be in this perpetual cycle of just launch it. And never look at the campaign again. I’ve been that way where it’s been so busy, I never go back and look at it. I’m like, oh, I go and pull the numbers real quick when I know a reporting meeting with my CMO is coming up.

Tas: And I’m like, crap, I should have done more with this, but it’s too late. And it should never be reactionary like that. So I was like, can I solve that

James: problem? Clients love the one [00:11:00] off ebook, white paper, because I mean, let’s be, you’ve been internal. It takes a lot of work to put together an ebook, or a white paper, case study.

James: And, you know, it’s almost like they forget that the evergreen stuff is actually more important. The evergreen stuff that shows like your product positioning, how it’s different, how it actually works. Like your actual desired bottom of the funnel, CTA, like that stuff is… I tell you guys, 10 times more important than

James: the ebook that you just spent 20 grand writing with somebody.

Tas: Right? And to be honest, they’re trash. I mean,

Tas: Everybody knows I position heavily against the eBooks and the white papers because most lead magnets are trash. And so for me, and I know how much work it takes for the marketers internally to do that.

Tas: So I’m sure they’re all cringing, like, you know, who the hell is she? But… I know it. I lived it. I’ve been on all those weekly meetings where we’re going [00:12:00] over the tier one report that’s coming out that honestly, no one cares about because it’s not great. And then we just force these downloads and then we harass them later.

Tas: And the reality is they’re not ready to purchase. And that’s not an indicator that someone’s ready to purchase. It’s just an indicator that they wanted the report. And so for me, I’m just like, that’s why I wrote down in my note. I was working out this morning. I wrote in my notion. I’m like, okay, write a positive post about white papers.

Tas: And if you were to do them, how would you do them better? So that’s TBD that’s coming. But yeah, I mean, I know I position them as the enemy a lot, but because it is, because we’re not doing the other stuff. I don’t see the other stuff as much. So yeah. How

Andy: often Tess, how often do technical barriers come into the conversation and equation as far as resulting in basically that just send it kind of mentality, right?

Andy: Whether it’s a Drupal site that you can’t do shit with or [00:13:00] lack of internal resources that are preventing you from doing it. Well, like how often do you hear that as like the actual barrier to creating successful, landing pages?

Tas: Okay. So I have this theory that ratchet marketing assets actually tend to do well. Meaning don’t over engineer don’t over design it does not need to be

Tas: amazing, right? I know landing pages are meant to be more visual. But the the three components probably are making sure that the page loads quickly.

Tas: I mean, if it doesn’t load, there’s no, nothing else can come of it. It’s all moot. So that’s the first thing is just make sure it loads. The second thing is your messaging and how you position, how you’re providing the information. Your buyers wouldn’t care if it came in a word doc. If it meant that it was giving them the information they needed.

Tas: And then the third thing is just make sure if you do have a form on there that it’s working. Because if you don’t have an [00:14:00] intake process, then that’s kind of going to be sketchy. So those are really the three components. And that’s going to be regardless of your crappy Drupal site, you’re inhibited by HubSpot CMS, your design’s crappy, and you have a looming website redesign.

Tas: I’ve heard that four or five times, like, Oh my God, our website’s so bad. We have a. We have a redesign, but we know we have this problem now. I’m like, then don’t worry about the redesign. Like it’s fine. Focus on what you can solve right now, which is the landing pages. It’s quick. Your team can do it. You’re not relying on web dev do it.

Tas: You know, that’s, it’s an easier solve for you to keep the business going.

Andy: Because we’re talking about paid though. I, I feel like consumption habits from a device level are very close to that. Top three that you just mentioned. I mean, you thought you think about like paid social as one of those primary distribution points and how people consume content on there.

Andy: I just, so mobile skewed and yet you can’t control for that. So [00:15:00] like responsiveness, but also having that mobile first mentality. Mm-Hmm. is equally as important as making sure the page loads and

Tas: the form works. Yeah. And I’ll say this, which is

Tas: For the companies that I’ve worked with, which are all B2B internally and externally, desktop’s gonna be the primary driver.

Tas: It’s like 80% of traffic, right? And 80% is actually low on the lower end. Some of them are like much higher than I’ve seen. I don’t know if you guys are seeing it differently, but this is like SaaS products. Cause even if you want to do a free trial, you’re more than likely going to do a free trial on the desktop version, right?

Tas: Because that’s when you’re leveraging the site. Like I’m not using Loom on mobile.

Andy: Is that acquisition of lead or is that acquisition of traffic?

Tas: No, this is just purely from a traffic standpoint where I’m seeing a lot of desktop traffic coming in and then yeah, perhaps the lead because not all landing pages are also driving leads, which I did a poll and it was really a trick [00:16:00] question, but asked if the purpose of landing pages.

Tas: Our leads and James was like, whether you like it or not. And I was like, Oh, okay, well watch out. Cause next week we’re going to talk about this, but, but regardless traffic coming in and as a result conversions, but, not to say that it shouldn’t, because it’s kind of like a, Oh, I got a bookmark or email this to myself.

Tas: I’ve done that before where I’m like, I don’t have time to read this right now. My kid’s screaming in the background. I’m just going to email it to myself, but most times because it’s so research heavy, I feel like the B2B. Consumption process happens a lot more on desktop. It would have to, I’m not consuming all that information via mobile.

Tas: No,

Andy: but I find that interesting because when you

Andy: In the campaigns that we have run that are LinkedIn or even Facebook, the mobile traffic is 80 to 90 percent plus. Number one, you can’t control for it like you can on Google from a bidding perspective, right? With certain device level stuff. But just [00:17:00] inherently, I mean, yeah, we all use

Andy: LinkedIn and Instagram across multiple devices, but it’s definitely these where the priority of consumption takes place.

Tas: Interesting. So then my thing is… From a platform perspective, because if you look at general, like, you know, organic and direct traffic to a site is a good indication of like, who the people are coming directly to you via word of mouth or whatever.

Tas: So if the general traffic is skewing more desktop, but you’re seeing from a paid channel, which is one that you’re essentially forced, not forcing, but you know, you’re, you control that distribution a little bit more and you’re seeing that come in with mobile. For me, that’s going to be an indication of like, I know it’s hard to control, but can we move some of that consumption over to the desktop portion to make it easier from a tracking standpoint?

Tas: Because [00:18:00] to me, that would indicate like, is it junk traffic? Is it like, see you later traffic? And I won’t see you later because I’m not thinking about you later. So that’s, you know, everything is a signal. So what is that a signal of then?

James: That might be the, the one use case for Google display retargeting to desktop where you actually have control.

Andy: Well, the other thing too, that comes into play, and this is just anecdotal for a second, but like

Andy: When you get into like cookie widgets and compliance and privacy, things like that, how much of the screen they take up on a mobile device is a huge thing that impacts performance. Like we had one of our clients where you, you clicked on a LinkedIn ad, you went to the landing page and all you saw was the fricking cookie consent.

Andy: Like you had to accept it or basically peace out. So I mean, just adjusting that had a significant change on performance alone. But that’s what I’m saying. It comes back to that device level insights. In addition to those core three that you mentioned tasks.[00:19:00]

Andy: So what makes. So you, you went through those top three, but like, all right, so let’s get into some actual, like deeper level conversations here and like the burning question that pretty much anybody that is going to have, like,

Andy: What’s a good landing page? Like what are the components that make a good landing page?

Andy: And how do I squeeze more out of my campaign as a result of that?

Tas: I think it depends on what you’re running. So I use this analogy, which B2B loves to do, right? When you, I told James this, when you picture a landing page, what do you picture? You immediately picture this template that comes up in your head.

Tas: You’ve got the logo, you’ve got headline, sub-headline, a few bullet points. There’s a giant form on the right hand side. You can just see it, you can see it in your head, and that’s literally every company out there is like that. But if you look at, I love using Old Navy as a, as an example. So if you look at an Old Navy product page or you look at an Amazon product page, what do they do?

Tas: They don’t, you don’t land on the page and then it forces [00:20:00] you with this buy now button. That’s like shoving the payment information in your face before they show you the product, right? So I think there’s a lot of things that we can, we can leverage from B2C. And then on the flip side, there’s a lot of things we’re taking from B2C that we shouldn’t.

Tas: But one of the pieces is that you’re not going to ask someone to marry you on the first date. You’re not going to ask someone to pay for something before they’ve seen anything about the product. So the biggest thing is context, right? If it’s search, then you have a signal for what that context is. So if it’s someone searching for like screen recording software.

Tas: They’re looking for a solution that does that. Maybe they’re even more specific than that. And, Loom shows up now. What if they went to Loom’s website and they just shoved the form in their face and said, we promise we have everything you’re looking for, even though we’re not sure, submit a form, we’ll talk to you, do a [00:21:00] free trial right now.

Tas: No, the first thing you’re going to do is go to their site based on what the query is, you’re going to see.

Tas: What is the most, you know, the largest, most compelling capability of the product? You want to lead with that. You want to look at then additional features. What are the pain points you’re trying to solve?

Tas: What did they solve for you? So much is in the messaging itself. Another thing I love, we don’t showcase product videos or product imagery and assets. It’s like these stock images and the stuff that has no relevancy other than visual interest, which the only interesting thing is the guy going.

Tas: Business people. Yeah. Business people, stock image, Shutterstock. And so every single component has to work in unison and tell a little bit of a story. And your conversion point is actually last, right? So you can sprinkle it across the page. Some of them might be in different areas of the journey where it’s like, yeah, I’ve seen loom before.

Tas: I just wanted to look at a couple of things. Maybe [00:22:00] they wanted to look at a comparison. So they’re, they’re looking at you versus a competitor. Maybe they want to see a couple more reviews. So again, all those signals that come in from like a keyword search can showcase there. Right. And, um. And then you have one primary desirable action and the conversion point is important.

Tas: I’m not going to say that it’s not right, but it’s what comes after because we are like, they submitted a demo request. We’re good. We’re happy, our job is done, we’re going to move on. But even today in my post, someone said something about like, well, conversions are so important. We’re still going to try to get them to submit the demo and like that.

Tas: I’m like, yeah, we’re going to still have a demo page. But the demo is the start of the buying journey that involves us that there’s so much that happens from the point where a person raises their hand up into the point where revenue is either closed or won or [00:23:00] lost or whatever, right? What’s the stat

James: there?

James: It’s like 67 percent of the buying process is done before they even submit.

Tas: Yeah, so

Tas: You want them to be ready with enough information to reach out to someone, right? But then once they meet with you, now it’s a whole thing that’s going to happen. You’re probably going to have multiple calls. You’re going to have like a, another pitch deck.

Tas: You’re going to bring in an AE from the SDR. All of this stuff’s going to happen. You’re going to follow up. You’re going to try to negotiate pricing. And then it’s going to go into a closed one opportunity, a closed lost opportunity. There’s a lot that happens during that point. And all of those things during those points in the journey, you have to continue to reinforce that message of… why we’re the best fit.

Tas: Why we are better than whatever alternative method that you’re using to solve the problem than the competitors. Here is our reviews and our trust right over and over and over and over and over again. Up until the point where they’re like, yeah, it’s a no brainer. I got to go with them. So that’s kind of where…[00:24:00]

Tas: Yes, you optimize for the conversions, but it’s like all the stuff that happens after you got to think about that journey as

Andy: well. So you mentioned like intense signals and insights using search as an example there, right? I think the other ones that round that out going back to like, yeah, you want to capture the conversion. But like, it’s an audience first strategy because the same thing can be said about net new versus existing customers, right? Retargeting versus net new visitors. I mean, your messaging, ABM versus non ABM, right? Personalization versus not like all of the messaging has to be fine tuned to align with who that individual or audience is like, forget the conversion. You need to understand who those people are.

Andy: First and foremost. Totallum, all right. So I got two, two real quick hitters for you because I know they have come up countless times in our conversations with clients never known have

Tas: no nav on landing pages. Really? Why? No nav, [00:25:00] because it’s a distraction. It is, I would say that buyers today face a lot of decision fatigue.

Tas: I actually covered that in the audit video I did today. And so they’re not stupid. It’s the universal sign that. If you see a client’s logo or whatever company logo on the top left, and you hit that, you’re going to go to the homepage. universally known even for the non tech savvy, like my mother in law, who, like, knows how to use Snapchat Snapchat.

Tas: So she’s above most people. But, that’s fine. The other way is they can always go back and then just look up the main site and go there, right? But the landing page specifically is supposed to be this sandbox environment, a focused experience and you’re testing different variables. Now, what happens when you inject it?

Tas: 300 variables on the page. How do you know what works? Their attention span is now spread thin, right? So now instead of, Oh, actually, you know what? I’m not going to read this page. I want to go look at the pricing. Next thing, [00:26:00] you know, UTMs drop off, they’re roaming around. You have no attribution. It looks like junk leads or junk traffic from your campaigns.

Tas: They’re just roaming around aimlessly. You can still create an experience that helps them consume content. without shoving them somewhere else. Or it’s this like dory experience of like, Oh my God, look, button over here. Oh my God, newsletter sign up.H, it’s like, what’s my name? You know? So it’s just like, they get overwhelmed and then they leave.

Tas: If they’re, if they’ve, if they’ve shown you intent for something like, you know, Loom versus Vidyard, you got to give them information with Loom versus Vidyard. Not, Hey, you want to check out our other resources? What about our case study? Hey, what about a pricing page? Do you also want to look at all our plans?

Tas: Here’s an example of how a CEO uses loom. Like no one, that’s not what they’re asking for. So I think at the end of the day, to keep it very, very simple, you’re delivering on the promise that’s in [00:27:00] the ad. So if the ad says, here’s a comparison page between loom and vidyard. And that’s like old Navy saying, you’re saying, Hey, I want to look at, look up trousers.

Tas: Right. And then you click on the ad and they dump you on the homepage and they’re like, yeah, but we also have dresses and it’s snow season and there’s a storm coming. And then here’s like hats and shoes and whatever. You’re like, dude, I just wanted the fricking pants. Cause I have an interview next week and I need the pants.

Andy: Okay. So I think I know the answer to this then too.

Andy: One call to action on the page or multiple to hedge your bets?

Tas: There are people who fight me on this. I think James might be one of them. He fights me on a lot of things. No, you don’t. Okay. There are some people who argue the secondary CTA.

Tas: You want a soft CTA and a hard CTA. I always just do one CTA. And maybe the soft CTA, if you want a secondary one, some [00:28:00] clients will fight me on it. And I’m like, fine, put it at the bottom of the page. Right. And you give them an out if they want to get there. But I’m a primary CTA and single CTA person. And I die on this hill because it just makes the journey a little more specific.

Tas: Maybe the volume is lower. But it gives you a basis to try something. So James and I actually talked about this the other day and we’re like free trial or buy now? Which one should we do? Which one should we do? And we’re like, we can do both. You know, that’s the beauty of testing is if that’s like a hard thing, let’s figure out whether it’s easier to do a free trial or is it easier

Tas: for someone to just buy now. Especially if it’s a low cost product. That’s like what, you know, 60 bucks for a lifetime or whatever, like who cares? That’s 60 bucks. Now, would you do that for a $35,000 product? I don’t know. Maybe a softer sell is the free trial before they invest that much money. But yeah, so I think it might locate a dancer.

James: I agree with one for the record. I agree with one.

James: I kind of [00:29:00] can’t stand landing pages that have three ebook downloads, one free trial of video demo, and then like what’s the advice that I’m giving to the client? Okay. Maybe let’s put a heat map on the page and see which one they actually like care about to start. And then narrow in on that one.

James: Because like, it is, it’s all over the place. You know, that’s what it becomes all over the place. And it’s like, can you have two? Sure. Like the primary and secondary. But then it’s like, you’re not, you’re not being direct with the user in what you want. And then I feel like the piece that you run into here as a huge issue too, is just like tracking and stuff too. Because right, like when a client…

James: when you run any sort of campaign, you have one goal. Is the goal to drive free trials? Is the, I mean, the goal is to drive revenue in these scenarios. But you need to be able to break up that customer journey and also track it accurately. You don’t want to be having this conversation with the client

James: we’re like, Oh yeah, well, we had [00:30:00] 27 people who purchased. But we had 500 free trials. Like you always end up doing this. Like, yeah, yeah. These are the metrics that you really care about. But we had this many people do the secondary CTA. And it’s like, okay, cool. You really only

Andy: care about the one.

Andy: What’s sad is that this need to track and attribute everything has resulted in us being less creative as marketers. And not catering to the needs of the

Andy: customers that we’re trying to attract, right? I, you, you both talked about it. You both just said like, yeah, we need to have a single CTA. We don’t want to have a nav. We don’t want to do this. We don’t want to present options because we need to track everything. And that, like, if we talk about customer journey, which is not linear, we all know that. Like that just creates a falsehood going back to that narrative because of the need to track. Like screw the, I wish I could just say, screw the tracking.

Andy: Like let’s give the people what they want, let [00:31:00] them buy how they’re going to buy. Give them a nav because I’m a firm believer in including a nav. Even if it’s like, I have seen performance skew towards nav over no nav in a positive direction. Now, I think in the nav situation, it depends on, are you using, well, higher conversion rates. Higher conversion rates. Higher quality conversions. But it also comes back to, well, is it the existing nav or is it a more cultivated nav based off of the signals

Andy: that we know about the audience, right? You don’t want to throw in like some massive nav where there’s every option known to man to click through. But like, if you are sending somebody to a cultivated experience that you know that they’re later in their stage of buying, you know, that they want to get a demo or a trial hopefully as the main CTA. But you also want to make sure that like, it’s a qualified demo.

Andy: And to your point Tas, to ask, like after that form is submitted, and after that lead is captured, like the journey is just beginning. So are they qualified? Or is there a price restriction [00:32:00] that they were unknowingly submitting a form about that you could have easily resolved. And you just helped sales out because you create a better qualified lead coming through by allowing them to see that information or to do a little bit of extra research and opportunity to navigate around that.

James: You can take all of your internal resources and log into the product and, like, those things out of your nav. Yeah,

Tas: so this is, yeah, this is one of the things people fight me on. It’s fine. I get it, right? Like you want to give people everything. Okay. Then just send them to the damn homepage. 40, 40 percent of 44 percent of B2B companies are doing that anyway.

Tas: The whole point is to have as little variables at a time that’s running in order to make data driven decisions that impact the rest of the website. You can’t do that if you have 1500 variables going on. So that’s my area of focus. And I know it comes back to like the whole tracking thing, [00:33:00] because at some point UTMs are going to disappear, right?

Tas: They’re limited already. So when you have a sandbox environment, it’s like, what do marketers have to work on? Because regardless of how we feel about anything… we have two jobs to do. We have one that’s a responsibility to the user and then we have the other that’s a responsibility to the client or the company that or a CMO whoever we’re reporting into. How do you marry those two things right?

Tas: How do you say no CMO you can’t put AI this and that or whatever on the homepage. But also say, how can I lead with the largest capability and the most compelling capability that’s important to the user? You can only test those instances within, you know, a certain very strict environment with controlled traffic.

Tas: One way I remedied this because I had a client who said, Yeah, I don’t know about the nav thing. And I said, fine, you can put a footer down there. Put a very minimal footer and what we did was [00:34:00] we looked at the other pages of the website. And we saw from the like, these were comparison pages, right?

Tas: Comparison landing pages that she was doing. We looked at the comparison pages and we saw what was the next path. That someone took from the comparison page that she had prior to me. And the next path was the about the company and then one of their products specifically because they had two. And those are the two links that we put down in the footer because the data showed us

Tas: that those were the two things they were curious about later. The other pieces you could take something like that. And instead of doing a navigation, you look at the, you look at the website data and you say, okay, this is what people are most interested in. And then you dedicate like a little block further down the page.

Tas: That’s part of the story. That says, you know, people use us for security questionnaires or whatever. And then that talks about the product. Not necessarily taking them elsewhere, but then leveraging a heat map to see if that [00:35:00] block has engagement as well. So there are other ways to indicate

Tas: interest and consumption versus just taking them somewhere else.

Andy: So let’s talk about that longer page then. Do you, I’m going to, I’m going to keep going on this. Do you recommend relying on the user to scroll naturally or do you anchor to it? Based off of some softer CTAs higher on the page.

Tas: I mean, you could do that.

Tas: I think that’s more of like a, a design. What do you recommend?

Andy: Not you could. What’s, what are you going to, what’s TAS

Tas: telling people? I don’t have,

Tas: I don’t do anchors on landing pages. So I have my frameworks and I go through very much like a story format. I do expect them to scroll. So that’s another thing where it’s like, CRO is like, keep your landing page as short as possible and don’t let them scroll or whatever.

Tas: I’m like, yeah, have them scroll. You know what I mean? It’s as they go further down the page, you’re weaning out all the guys that don’t care about your product or your page. Or it maybe not isn’t compelling enough. But the 30, 40 percent that make it [00:36:00] to the bottom, those are the good ones. Right? And so for me, it is scroll, scroll, scroll.

Tas: You could anchor it to different parts. But if you’ve spent so much time laying the page out in a specific story format… you want them to kind of go through it, right? Like, for example, my product details framework starts with you lead with the largest capability, a little walkthrough of the product. You go into how it works.

Tas: So the most compelling features. And then you go into the benefits of utilizing those features, right? And then you go into objections, FAQs, and the social proof. It tells like a story. Do you want to jump on social proof? Cool. Maybe you’re further along, you don’t need to see features and capabilities of the product.

Tas: You just want to get your social proof and you want to get out of there and cool. Awesome. Do it. Or you can just go through it as well and educate yourself about the product. And you’re going to get that information anyway. So I guess it depends on the layout of the page. If you’re going to put jump links fine.

Tas: You can actually test it. See if someone’s [00:37:00] jumping to a certain section and then move it up higher on the page.

Andy: How much data do you need for an effective test? Don’t say statistically, don’t say statistically significant because it’s a bullshit answer. Doesn’t exist.

Tas: I don’t know. I think it’s like whatever’s relevant to your specific audience.

Tas: I think statistically significant just depends on, again, context, right? Like if my site, my personal site, Gets like seven, 800 users, like a couple, every couple of weeks, which I’m like, okay, that’s pretty decent for like a little bitty solo shop me. And then you have a client that’s like 50, 000 pages.

Tas: So what’s enough for them? Right? Like sometimes we run LinkedIn polls and we get over a hundred answers. We’re like, this is good. And, and I may have 10, 000 followers or 150, 000 followers. I think 100 is a good sample size to get a feel of like what the people are. I think it’s the quality too, right? And I think that’s where paid ads really helps is if you [00:38:00] have a hundred, but they’re your ICP.

Tas: And they’ve responded to the page that means a lot more than 2000 of like random people that are on the page. So what does that mean to you? I would much rather it be. Okay, I’m going to dwindle down on the quality here because I got 30 heads of marketing. How do I get more heads of marketing in here?

Tas: But based on the 30 heads that have interacted with the page, these are the things that are important to them. I’m going to move those pieces up. Obviously, privacy and everything aside.

James: All right, Tess. So, in this, in the headline for this whole thing that we’re doing right now, I did promise people frameworks for the perfect landing page.

James: So I know you put together some visuals for us in form of a Prezi, I think,

Tas: right? Yeah, but I’ll walk you on through a slide deck. We don’t,

James: we don’t have to go through everything, but I, you know, I think the way that you put these frameworks together is really going to help [00:39:00] a lot of people think about their evergreen landing pages.

James: Again, we’re not talking about your ebook campaign. So why don’t you, Tell us about those.

Tas: Okay. And if we run out of time or anything, I’m happy to send people like a link to this. So just DM me or I can put it in the comments or whatever. Like, I don’t care. It’s not gated. Just take it and just go do like better marketing.

Tas: I don’t really care. And I don’t like link to, I mean, I don’t have like my. frameworks on here, but I tell you like what you need to have and you can get your, you know, your brain rolling. And I mean, we’re working with smart marketers. It’s not like people don’t know what they’re doing or maybe, you know, some, but, at least you have an idea for like the themes that you need to go attack for these foundational pages.

Tas: So that’s kind of like what I wanted to cover and make sure people had something tangible to take away from our conversation. Sounds good. Okay. Very quickly. This is [00:40:00] a lot of what we’ve already talked about, which is what we’re taking from B to C. We need to be very specific about. But what we’re seeing with paid ads, and I’m sure you guys are seeing it too.

Tas: The targeting’s too broad, right? Campaign structures are messy. We have way too many campaigns, disproportionate focus on accessory campaigns, white papers, events, webinars. We love doing those. And then there’s no foundational campaigns and then landing pages, afterthought, short term throwaways. We focus on volume of leads and we prioritize conversions over consumption.

Tas: Which should not be the case for B2B, and that’s essentially what we’re gonna try to change here, which is I would rather people pay a thousand dollars cost per lead if that meant that it was somebody who is in your ICP people get so caught up with the LinkedIn is six, it’s so expensive, it’s $600, blah, blah, blah.

Tas: I’m like, yeah, you know when it’s expensive, it’s when you’re paying $600 for someone who’s not in your ICP . So focus on. Making sure that you’re as [00:41:00] specific as possible. I’d much rather you go after a smaller pool of people that are your people than not. And then, landing pages should be sandboxes.

Tas: They should not be just a destination and then never looked at again. And they can actually be really powerful because you can utilize your paid budget. To inform your entire website strategy that’s anchoring to a larger value than just like we’re running your paid programs right and then you control distribution so you get to control a little bit of the audience.

Tas: You can’t always do that with organic or direct traffic. So that’s the power of paid if you’re going to spend the money, use it for multiple things other than just, you know, then just like. Distributing a white paper here are the framework. So like, if you, this is the only thing you need to see today, which is you have 6 core things that you need to run in your foundational programs.

Tas: And that is your primary offer. I called it manifesto before, [00:42:00] but this is essentially. Why you exist, why you built the thing, what was the gap in the market and who are you for? So being very, very clear about that. And then I use a Chipotle analogy, which James hates and calls the garbage taco framework or whatever.

Tas: He totally ruined it. And so Chipotle for those that don’t know, because I’ve had clients who are like, I don’t know what that is. And they’re like in Germany, I’m like, Oh my God, I’m so sorry. Okay. So Chipotle for those that don’t know. You get ingredients, you pick, you know, you pick kind of your vehicle for it, you put it together.

Tas: But essentially, the primary offer are all these components of what makes you, you. So they’re all the ingredients. And now you have different ingredients. I mean, it’s the same ingredients, but they’re just packaged up differently, right? So who’s the star of the show? If somebody’s showing signals for looking for some kind of software, right, your category software, then you’re going to showcase the product.

Tas: It’s going to be very heavy based on the features, the capabilities. And the benefits of the product itself, [00:43:00] the competitor, if they’re trying to evaluate you against a competitor or you, like Anthony said, you know, it’s you versus contextual. So it could be like loom positions against meetings, right? So you can create a comparison page around that.

Tas: Then trust what we have found is that a collection of testimonials do way better than an in depth case study. So if you can anchor multiple, you know, testimonials and case studies that are relevant. I think that’s going to be far more impactful than just the one. And then, obviously the pricing and demo, not everybody does pricing.

Tas: James called me out for not putting my pricing. I’m going to put my pricing up on my website. I promise you. And, and then obviously the demo experience as well. And the bonus is that each of these with. The distribution and testing to your ICP, right, is going to inform the pages on your main website.

Tas: So now you have tests that you run for your primary offering. It can inform what goes on your website. Same thing with a [00:44:00] product. Goes to product page, competitor, comparison pages from an organic standpoint. And then the demo on your paid versus demo on your primary website. So that’s kind of like. How I think about leveraging landing pages for more than just landing pages.

Tas: This makes the effort a little more worth it, right? Then just like a throwaway campaign and you’re dumping a bunch of resources. How can you leverage this? And the best part is this can all get, this can be always on. So you could kill your white paper program because it’s old, fatigued. We’ve been running it for a while now, but these can always run.

Tas: Because it evolves with the product. It stays there. It’s evergreen. And that’s what people want, right? They don’t want to burn out their teams. They don’t want to burn out the agency. And then this way, the agencies or individual contributors, they have direction, they have something to keep an eye on.

Tas: And then you can experiment and do whatever you want with the other 20 percent of the budget. I had some, I had a brag sheet on here, but I just wanted you guys to see that I featured you on here. [00:45:00] And then, essentially you create a demand engine with that. So typically the process, which I would encourage other people to do too, is, you know, pick a few stakeholders in each group, gather some alignment, right?

Tas: I have a very rigorous alignment process, but yours doesn’t have to be all of this, but I’ve been internal. So when I know like. What’s the sales process like I have to go talk to our head of sales. I don’t know. Someone sends me a pitch deck. Here’s a, whatever I go talk to, how do I get ICP information?

Tas: Product marketing’s give me something else. Everything’s in Google drive. I don’t know where everything is. Here’s a single kind of Bible for your, you know, team that can reference back. It’s going to help cut. Cut the time to approval. Cause everyone’s working from the same alignment doc and then it helps onboard new team members or consultants or agencies in the future.

Tas: Imagine if your client just handed you a notion doc that was filled with all this information in there. It would help your targeting. It would help your message and help everything else. Then you don’t have to go through, Hey client, can you review this ad? [00:46:00] Everything comes from one place, right? you’re not making stuff up.

Tas: So I call it coloring inside the lines. And so I would love if someone gave me this. So I’m like, let’s create, let’s create it. And also shout out to Lachey for the inspiration here, but I took it and applied it to paid. Here’s an example of a framework and what it looks like. They come from the peer vetted stuff that I’ve done internally, but I want to actually show you, I don’t know if it’ll okay.

Tas: Share this tab instead. Let’s see. Is it doing it? Is it doing it? It’s doing it. Okay, so here’s an example of a framework, right? Where you go in, here’s the product capabilities one I told you guys about. You lead with the largest capability. You talk about the features and capabilities, what enables the person to do, the benefits of them, social proof, FAQs, form or CTA, right?

Tas: And then here’s an example of a client within the the client. So you can see [00:47:00] here still, it is very long form. It is very showcasey of the product itself, but guess what? This is a page that once she runs, these are the biggest FAQs and you notice there’s not a form on this page. There’s one CTA, right?

Tas: So the framework’s a guideline, but essentially you’re going to make it work for what you do as a company. And then you see here, for example, you have five capabilities. Maybe we find that people are most interested in the Salesforce integration one. We push that forward. So now it’s going to help you inform layout.

Tas: It’s going to help you inform like messaging. And then you take this and it essentially replaces this product page that’s on their main website. So this is an, I wanted to show a tactical example of how the frameworks could work for You know, a specific client and then your favorite part, James distribution, right?

Tas: So once you build those frameworks, how do you leverage them in your distribution cycle? So here are some like keywords that you could [00:48:00] use. Very bottom of funnel. They’re very like interested in the, you know, they’re probably problem aware, solution aware, and they have like their keywords here. Even if the search volume is low, that’s okay.

Tas: It actually helped you win a little bit better. It tells you which type of campaign it’s going to go to and which landing pages it’s going to link to from a search perspective. And then from a, from an ads perspective, you saw this one yesterday, James. So I’m just like showing it again. But I sent this to a client as well, which is, she was asking me where she should place the landing pages.

Tas: So from a LinkedIn perspective. I told her the cold one’s probably going to go to your primary. You’re going to retarget based on not just who visited this page, but other core pages on your site, some tech, some bottom of the funnel blog content that she worked with Lachey on and a LinkedIn company page, even the people who’ve interacted with the ads.

Tas: So people who have at least had one touch point with your business, and then it’s going to go to a few other core landing pages based on the frameworks. And then obviously from the feedback and iterations, I didn’t fill out the [00:49:00] slide, but essentially, we’re going to do two things, right? Consumption, how are people consuming the information on the page?

Tas: And then quality pipeline. Not just conversions, but are those meaningful conversions that have a downstream effect on pipeline? That’s kind of what we’re looking at. And I call it platform to pipeline reporting. So

Andy: what GA data are you using? Cause I’m about to puke by seeing that on here,

Tas: but go ahead.

Tas: Cause you, everybody’s a anti GA for right now. They’re so like, they’re freaking out. Right. I’m going to stop sharing. So if we, I wonder if we’ll, I’ll come back soon. Cool. Okay. So vanity metrics get a bad rap. Right. And, and I think that. That’s wrong because they are signals of consumption signals of intent.

Tas: So outside of like whatever the page views and the users and whatever, right? But if we’re looking at how much time someone’s spending on page, if I have that long product page, it’s going to take them a good couple of [00:50:00] minutes. The video it’s. is a few minutes long for them to consume. So we’re going to look at those consumption points, which is how much time they’re spending on the page.

Tas: Are they scrolling down further? Where are they getting stuck? Where are they hovering? Screen recordings, right? I always look at like 10 to 20 of them to just kind of get a good sense. What’s happening? What are they reading? Tracking the The mouse movements, but then what ends up happening, which this client was really great because her platform of pipeline reporting is very short.

Tas: Like when I was at teleom, it was, conversions. Okay, so, so we had submissions net new ICP percentage, MQLs, meetings, opportunities. And then after that, it was like, then we had like, yeah, pipeline, influence pipeline, direct pipeline, closed one. I mean, that’s like ridiculous, right? Like it’s so much, it’s so inflated.

Tas: But with early stage, she’s like, no, I have three. Is a meeting being booked? Is it an open [00:51:00] op and is it closed one revenue? I’m like, I want to hug you right now. This is great. So for her, the conversions are straight up book a meeting. It goes to a calendar link. The UTMs go through and the conversion rate from a long form page like that.

Tas: So that same thing we did for the comparison page and what the comparison page ended up doing was she had a 0. 13 percent conversion rate and in six days. After we did the optimizations, remove the nav, primary CTA, fix the copy. It’s a 3. 73 percent going to a meetings booked. So, so I’ll die on this hill, Andy, with the navigation.

Tas: It’s not the navigation, but you know what I mean? It’s the They went to the homepage. They would have been lost. They would have Yeah, but it’s good for us to understand what are they consuming? Okay. The conversion rate’s high. What else can we do that’s going to pump it up, right? Like, can we give it? Like nitrous oxide, the car’s moving.

Tas: Can we get a moving faster? So I think that’s where we start with the best shot of [00:52:00] success. And then we follow the data.

James: I think so much of that has to do with like the system too . If you have that system of clarity. Let me phrase it that way.

James: This whole thing is kind of a system of clarity. I think that that makes a huge difference too. If you have the nav on the page and you’re sending to a homepage that’s built for investors like… Yes. That’s a huge miss. Versus, you know, if they’re jumping to a homepage and it’s a clear what the product does. And, you know, all of the unique selling points, what differentiates it like that’s way different.

Tas: Yeah. Like if Anthony and Rob built the homepage, then it has some kind of success, but there’s still a lot of, like, there’s a lot of distractions there. So can you essentially clone what they’ve done? Remove the nav, make it a focused experience, run a focused amount of traffic there through paid and test the messaging that Rob and Anthony have put on the page,

James: [00:53:00] right?

James: The focus is, I mean, I think the best part about paid media is to be able To run a controlled test with your ICP. Like that’s like, you know, everybody talks about was it the guy, CEO of data box. He posted that he uses LinkedIn as like a testing ground for his ideas. Right. Which is great. If you’ve been able to build an audience of people who are within your ICP, most brands don’t have that.

James: Like most, most founders don’t have that following. Most people don’t have that following. And like paid is the. Second best way to do it. I say second best because you know, if you built an organic following, I don’t say it’s free, but you’re not

Tas: paying for it, but tell me you guys are in the paid space.

Tas: I’ve been in the paid space. How many times do we actually run campaigns with the notion of? Testing it. I, and not our fault, not our, we

Andy: got no money for that. That’s the biggest thing is we got no money for that. We gotta drive. Yeah. How many leads did your landing

James: page get? Right? That’s That’s where it

Tas: goes.

Tas: Yeah. And that’s the [00:54:00] problem is we all have the same mentality. We look at it and think about it the same way, but then the minute we get off this call, we’re gonna turn back to our computers. And then what’s gonna end up happening? The client’s gonna say, I have high goals to hit this month. How are we gonna get there?

Tas: Mm-Hmm, . And you’re gonna say. Let’s use that white paper from 2004. It did really well back then.

James: Wow. I wouldn’t go there. Listen, the, the budget that you have available is the main contributing factor. If you are a scrappy startup, like no, you’re probably not going to. Invest in testing in the same way that a billion dollar organization is going, I

Tas: mean, but do billion dollar organizations do testing?

Tas: Cause I’ve worked for a couple of those. That’s where I

Andy: was going to go is it’s like you have a mentality and an ego shift there. Not to offend anybody, but I will for a second. It’s like, you do have an ego shift there of like, why do we [00:55:00] have to chess messing we’re a billion dollar company. We know what we’re doing.

Andy: Like, we need, we need to pump this through the sales team. It’s

Tas: somewhere in the middle. The, the billion dollar companies lack the focus, right? That’s the biggest thing. It’s like when I worked and it took me one year to get for me to close this GR ticket. I still remember and it was this campaign we were running like it took a year for me to hit launch.

Tas: But one thing I do appreciate about you. Early stage, early growth stage SaaS, if that’s a thing, right? Like they, they got funding, they’re ready to run paid. And so a couple of the clients that I work with that are in that stage, they’re hungry to learn and they move very quickly. It’s almost like it’s.

Tas: Like I have fast in my brain and I’m like, wow, fast is like a couple of weeks and I have a client like, okay, I implemented all your changes. Let’s go. I’m like, I sent it to you last night. Did you sleep? And so that mentality we lose along the way, the minute we get lots of chefs [00:56:00] in the kitchen, more stakeholders, more funding, it honestly gets a little bit worse.

Tas: As they go, because the early stage, they’re like ready, like early growth first, like seed a that are like series a, they’re like ready to rock and they’re like, yeah, let’s test it. Teach me how to test it. Teach me how to, you know, get the best messaging because they, they have that focus and the product is young and smaller.

Tas: It’s not as complicated yet. So it’s just like, it just ends up being. They’re more responsive to the change and the testing. And mind you, they have much smaller budgets. I mean, it’s like 5, 000 in paid, but they know how to utilize it best. They’re not wasting it on templates. Actually the same client was like, Oh yeah, we put out this template that people really loved and we just sent it to them via email.

Tas: Like we didn’t run a lot of paid to it. We just gave it to them. And I’m like, I don’t know what to do with that, but I don’t want to nurture them. Like if they’re ready, they’re, you know, whatever, but [00:57:00] we’ll just send them another template later. I’m like, cool. So she didn’t waste the paid budget on a crappy lead magnet.

Tas: She’s running it on foundational programs.

Andy: So I want to start to bring the today’s episode to a close with two, I think two questions. One is. Recommendations for tech stack when it comes to landing pages, whether there’s third party testing tools, heat mapping, scroll mapping tools, things like that, what’s your preferred tech stack tasks?

Tas: I’ve just used hot jar a lot, but honestly, I’m so tool agnostic. People ask me like, should I build my stuff on, on bonds? And I’m like, well. You can. Can I build in a HubSpot? You can. It doesn’t matter. I think the, the biggest thing is how much control over the messaging do you have. There is something to be said about the domain though, I will say that.

Tas: Because when you build something on Unbounce and say it’s not, it’s on a subdomain, not the primary domain. I know people like have argued that quality score and stuff isn’t as big of a deal like with [00:58:00] paid, but, and typically for B2B, like the average we’ve seen is like six is a great quality score for B2B.

Tas: But by having everything on our own domain and being very keyword specific and very intentional with the queries, we were like at an eight or nine ateli which was like unheard of. And so, but at the same time, we had a management issue because. We had 40, 50 landing pages we were managing, which is like not the way anybody should be doing that either.

Tas: So I don’t know if the payoff was there. But I would say leverage your own CMS because if you’re using it for a sandbox and you want to eventually replace your main product page, for example, it’s just going to make the migration a lot easier versus like you rebuilding it. For analytics, there’s a ton of free tools.

Tas: Again, I work with more like The earlier growth stage companies. And so for them, they don’t have the funds to go buy these enterprise tools and layer on stuff. So I’m just like, okay, hot jar, free to sign up, right? [00:59:00] You can get so many visits, so many recordings do that GA. I know people hate on it, but it’s just another tool guys.

Tas: We’ll get used to it. It’s not a big deal. Okay, go install that it’s pretty quick and fast, no cost start there. Learn to be scrappy, leverage those things, and then just go from there. I don’t think it needs to be super complicated.

Andy: All right. All right. Last question then. Three actionable takeaways for our audience today.

Tas: So many definitely just to spite Andy, I’m going to say, if you have a navigation on your landing page, please remove them and then send him a screenshot of you removing them. Yeah. But

Andy: then show me 30 days later what your performance comparison is. Do a, do an AB. Okay.

Tas: Do an AB, do an AB. Okay. And so.

Tas: I would just say that from a, if you have a low budget, right, let’s talk about that because typically companies who have the five, six, seven, eight, even 10, [01:00:00] 000 budget, it’s not worth it to spend their money with you or me or, you know, any agency to help run that stuff. So I think there’s collective advice we can give them on what they can do.

Tas: And I think the best thing to do is focus on. The like bottom of the funnel problem aware group of people, those, those people actually searching for your category software or your use cases and going after them having some foundational landing pages like maybe you don’t showcase pricing so you don’t have to worry about that, but perhaps have at least one that like tells the story of why you exist your primary offer right like what What you do.

Tas: I think Justin Rowe has a lot of templates he shares as well. So like, what do you do? What are your differentiators right there? And then position against like competitors or other solutions and against that pain point, just focus on the messaging. You don’t need to be technical. You don’t need to do anything else.

Tas: Just be a marketer. And we’re going to circle back. That’s the word of the day. We’re going to circle [01:01:00] back now from jargon. To very layman’s terms, use clear messaging and just use common sense. Literally, it’s simple common sense. Think about how you buy software. Common sense. Give them the information they need.

Tas: Let them be 80 percent ready by the time they come to you. Otherwise, they’re going to waste both sides time. And you don’t have time.

Andy: All right. Well, Tass, thank you for joining us today. Everybody that’s listening, connect with tasks on LinkedIn, check out Delphinium solutions and reach out to her with any of your landing page page questions.

Andy: So next time we’ll catch you guys later. Thanks guys. Yeah.

Thanks for listening to the Digital Vanter podcast. Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don’t miss an episode. For more resources and to keep up with the show, visit dragon360. com. Until next time.

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